A Choice of Systems
Oct. 23rd, 2020 08:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
seasidehermitI just finished reading through JMG's Golden Dawn series (Learning Ritual Magic, Paths of Wisdom, Circles of Power). It's given me a lot to think about, and a decision that has to be made.
I want to start practicing magic; I've identified problem areas and character flaws that I think would benefit from it (and said same problems and flaws likely put spiritual practice out of reach for the time being at least). I have been wanting something like this for a few years now, but while I have touched a toe in here and there, I haven't really taken the plunge.
I'd started with the Sphere of Protection, and had been looking at possibly doing the Dolmen Arch. My reasons for this were mostly because it was explicitly polytheist, and that felt important at least at the time. It was more of a snap decision than anything else. And I know part of the reason I struggled so hard with getting anywhere with regular practice is the insert your own pantheon nature of the ritual tied it into the quagmire my spiritual life turned into; doing it without gods is possible, but that other possibility was always there and it was hard to keep my mind away from it when it so badly wanted to work this out. But is that really the only thing that was getting in the way, for the last few years of trying and failing?
With my head in a clearer space and focused on other issues, I started to have some misgivings about the system itself, SoP aside. One big piece of that is the central role of mythology in the system. I do not like Celtic mythology. Don't ask why, I have no idea, I've never been able to pinpoint whatever it has or doesn't that absolutely can not hook my interest. For a number of reasons I had been trying to cultivate an interest for a while now, and I can say I have developed some appreciated for the culture, love the languages, and certain mythological themes as written in books analyzing them can be mildly interesting, overall it's just not my cup of tea and it's never going to be.
The Welsh stuff is a little better than the Irish, in that I actually had read it, years ago, got all the way through it, too. Never been able to do the Irish stories. It's the opposite with the characters populating the stories: the Irish gods seems more lively and dynamic on paper, if you were to just describe them, but the stories that star them are too dull for me to get through; the Welsh stories are more readable, but the characters in them, with one shining exception, are flat and uninteresting. Again, I don't know why, it just is and has always been that way.
I have wondered once or twice, if it is possible to have a connection with a deity while having no connection to their mythology? There are people worshipping deities now who have survived into the present with nothing more than a name intact, and maybe those worshippers are getting something there despite knowing nothing really about the deity. Does that also work for a god whose personality and symbolism you find intriguing but their surviving lore impossible to read?
Having read the Mabinogian once, I had no real desire to read it again; having now read it twice, I have no real desire to read it a third time. There are mythologies that I would probably love to take the time to meditate over line by line. Taking into consideration the active lack of interest I have in Celtic mythology, is it really a good idea to tackle something that makes the intense study of it a central part of training? Would I be able to tease out the hidden meaning in a story where I can't even connect with its surface level? When it serves as a barrier to the stuff in the course I find more interesting (like the philosophy, or more advanced ritual work), am I only setting myself up for frustration and failure? Maybe it's something better looked at later on, much later on, after I've had some success with system better suited to my present needs?
I have not made up my mind yet, but those are things to consider.
Somewhat related to that might be Druidry and my relationship with it. I do seem to keep falling in with Druids without even trying to, and there is probably something to that; on the other hand, I always end up on the periphery of it, never fully joining in, and there may be something to that as well, aside from my standoffish nature. JMG's writings made Revival Druidry more appealing than anything I'd previously come across, like say Philip Carr-Gomm's work (no offense to the guy, I suspect our personalities are a bit too different, don't speak the same language). I remember the first time I read about the history of the movement in The Druidry Handbook that they sound like a cool group of people I'd love to hang out with. Likewise in the present day, a cool group of people I don't mind hanging out with (or sharing internet space with, and I'm much more exclusive there now than I used to be), but does that make me a Druid? Or just Druid Adjacent?
Let's tackle the issue of nature worship, and hope nothing I say is too controversial. While I was involved in NeoPaganism, I spent more time then in the Reconstructionist branches were nature worship was downplayed or non existent. Even where it was most present, in ADF, something about its expression there often struck me as insincere (beyond just watching people vomit environmental slogans and then get in their SUV to drive absolutely everywhere you need to go, however short the distance, you live in the city and could've walked, or taken the bus). JMG's various works and a Ronald Hutton book helped me to pinpoint just what it was that I saw (liberal virtue signaling on the one hand, on the other a deep seated hatred of the modern world and their lives in it, where nature is loved less for itself than for what it symbolizes: the very opposite of life in the modern world, an idyllic Eden that man has fallen from and which you're trying to get back to). Revival Druidry, on the other hand, has people that do seem sincere, their nature worship is more grounded in reality, expressed in something more than hashtag slogans and posturing, expressed in their whole way of living.
The exposure to more sincere people has given me an appreciation I didn't have before among the NeoPagans. As much appreciation as a city dwelling recluse like myself can have. Sometimes, standing on the beach staring out into the ocean, or sitting in a nearby park atop a hill with a view of the city and beyond that stretches out for miles, I can see its appeal. But I also know if nature worship was my focus, if it was all that I did, it would not be satisfying, it would leave something out. A secondary function, maybe, an important supplement, and possibly one reason I keep finding myself attracted to Druids while also never quite getting involved; maybe something I should look more into when I get my head on straight again. But not the primary focus, no, not the thing I need the most at this point in time.
What is that thing? I'm not completely sure. Probably what I've been looking for and not finding in the various places I've been: NeoPaganism, ADF, Revival Druidry, Reconstructionism, spirit work, etc. Now here in magic.
What resonates with me? Freedom, transformation, initiation; communion with the gods; discipline and willpower, being focused intensely in a single direction to bring a particular passion to life. I don't have those latter qualities, I can untangle myself from places I don't want to be, let go of the outside factors that often get in the way of such pursuits, not so good at the moving forward; I wasn't taught discipline, I was kind of imprinted with its opposite, it's something I will need to develop. I suspect sometimes that the particular direction my life took, in adulthood at least, that gift the universe gave me, was meant to give me the space and the freedom to work on myself. And I'd be further along on that path if I didn't misunderstand the message, thought it meant something different and included different benefits and had to learn the hard way that no, that's not for you.
So with this in mind, there was something I liked better in reading the Golden Dawn books. I liked what seemed like a focus on personal and spiritual development that seemed to be absent from other books I'd read - not to say such systems aren't capable of spiritual development, but maybe that it isn't the primary focus? I also liked, in LRM, the more compact lessons, two weeks and then we review. I think that is a better approach for a beginner in order to measure their progress than one that takes three months at a minimum and probably longer (three months can be a very long time). I also found myself intrigued by the Cabala, the Tree of Life, more so than I might've thought I would be. It could be interesting to work through that system and see what it does.
What turns me off about it? The Judeo-Christian elements. Easier to ignore in LRM, became impossible to do so in CoP.
I don't have the bug up my butt about Christianity that one would commonly see in NeoPagan circles (the demonization of Christianity was something I complained about often when I was in them), my mother attempted to raise me Catholic but it didn't take, I dropped out at age ten and that was the end of that. That said, I've never found Christianity even remotely appealing, its exoteric organizations and beliefs offer me nothing that I want, I disagree with its view of divinity, human nature, the world; I don't like the ugliness it's historically responsible for, but recognize its days as a conquering power that will save you whether you want to be saved or not even if it has to kill you to do so is well behind it, thus there is very little point in walking around with a chip on my shoulder about it. I do feel a certain antipathy for it that I do for anything I have no interest in but that the culture has embraced to such an extent that it decides no, I'm not allowed to opt out - so basically the same antipathy I have toward, say, Harry Potter and Marvel movies. I don't like the way it has become the default, that its ideas are equated with religion itself, defined on its terms only as though its terms are what all religions must be and must offer; same with its notion of divinity as a single thing, and the only conceivable options for most people are to accept that or to believe in nothing at all. I tend to think that situation won't remain in place for much longer, that it is already starting to break apart; for long though doesn't mean I'll live to see it or reap its full benefits.
I read in one book Golden Dawn is explicitly and solely monotheistic and that's just the way it is; I think JMG's work on the Celtic and forthcoming Heathen Golden Dawn have shown that not to be true. Or Damien Echols, who seemed to be more focused on what one could easily call the pantheon of angels, that, if I remember him correctly, he kind of divorced from traditional Christianity's tribal god, beings that pay allegiance to the higher universal order and not any particular religion (very possible, in a general sense, the divine lines likely do not lay just where people here think they do). The system also includes ideas of ultimate unity, common to everything I've thus far read, that I'm not sure I completely agree with in the manner it is presented in, but that (when divorced from traditional monotheism and the Christian god) is a minor quibble; the places where it might matter are nowhere I'd be touching anytime soon.
It would probably make life easier to find something that lines up well with my religious beliefs, or doesn't contradict them too badly. The problem is, I'm not sure that system exists right now. Whether I like it or not, right now most traditional occultism is steeped in Christianity and monotheism; some people are working to change that, but it is moving at the pace that such things do. Do I want to sit around and wait for an experienced occultist to come along and make a decent system that actually works centering around a pantheon I am drawn to, however long that might take? Or do I figure out how to work with what I have to work with? What compromises am I willing to make, at least in the beginning when I'm too ignorant to have much choice, to get where I want to go?
What are the pluses and minuses of each? Invoking certain beings, what attention might that draw, what might it bring into my life and is that something I want? I half imagine, with the traditional Christian elements being the default in occultism for so long, invoked by believers and non believes alike because that's just the way it is, the answer may well be nothing, unless you really want it.
It's something I have to think about: which system will get me where I want to go with the least amount of detours, and what am I willing to compromise on to get there? I'm not sure what I think yet, might have to ask something on Magic Monday, if I can come up with a way to ask without coming across too stupid about it. If anyone happens to be reading this and has advice to offer, feel free.
I want to start practicing magic; I've identified problem areas and character flaws that I think would benefit from it (and said same problems and flaws likely put spiritual practice out of reach for the time being at least). I have been wanting something like this for a few years now, but while I have touched a toe in here and there, I haven't really taken the plunge.
I'd started with the Sphere of Protection, and had been looking at possibly doing the Dolmen Arch. My reasons for this were mostly because it was explicitly polytheist, and that felt important at least at the time. It was more of a snap decision than anything else. And I know part of the reason I struggled so hard with getting anywhere with regular practice is the insert your own pantheon nature of the ritual tied it into the quagmire my spiritual life turned into; doing it without gods is possible, but that other possibility was always there and it was hard to keep my mind away from it when it so badly wanted to work this out. But is that really the only thing that was getting in the way, for the last few years of trying and failing?
With my head in a clearer space and focused on other issues, I started to have some misgivings about the system itself, SoP aside. One big piece of that is the central role of mythology in the system. I do not like Celtic mythology. Don't ask why, I have no idea, I've never been able to pinpoint whatever it has or doesn't that absolutely can not hook my interest. For a number of reasons I had been trying to cultivate an interest for a while now, and I can say I have developed some appreciated for the culture, love the languages, and certain mythological themes as written in books analyzing them can be mildly interesting, overall it's just not my cup of tea and it's never going to be.
The Welsh stuff is a little better than the Irish, in that I actually had read it, years ago, got all the way through it, too. Never been able to do the Irish stories. It's the opposite with the characters populating the stories: the Irish gods seems more lively and dynamic on paper, if you were to just describe them, but the stories that star them are too dull for me to get through; the Welsh stories are more readable, but the characters in them, with one shining exception, are flat and uninteresting. Again, I don't know why, it just is and has always been that way.
I have wondered once or twice, if it is possible to have a connection with a deity while having no connection to their mythology? There are people worshipping deities now who have survived into the present with nothing more than a name intact, and maybe those worshippers are getting something there despite knowing nothing really about the deity. Does that also work for a god whose personality and symbolism you find intriguing but their surviving lore impossible to read?
Having read the Mabinogian once, I had no real desire to read it again; having now read it twice, I have no real desire to read it a third time. There are mythologies that I would probably love to take the time to meditate over line by line. Taking into consideration the active lack of interest I have in Celtic mythology, is it really a good idea to tackle something that makes the intense study of it a central part of training? Would I be able to tease out the hidden meaning in a story where I can't even connect with its surface level? When it serves as a barrier to the stuff in the course I find more interesting (like the philosophy, or more advanced ritual work), am I only setting myself up for frustration and failure? Maybe it's something better looked at later on, much later on, after I've had some success with system better suited to my present needs?
I have not made up my mind yet, but those are things to consider.
Somewhat related to that might be Druidry and my relationship with it. I do seem to keep falling in with Druids without even trying to, and there is probably something to that; on the other hand, I always end up on the periphery of it, never fully joining in, and there may be something to that as well, aside from my standoffish nature. JMG's writings made Revival Druidry more appealing than anything I'd previously come across, like say Philip Carr-Gomm's work (no offense to the guy, I suspect our personalities are a bit too different, don't speak the same language). I remember the first time I read about the history of the movement in The Druidry Handbook that they sound like a cool group of people I'd love to hang out with. Likewise in the present day, a cool group of people I don't mind hanging out with (or sharing internet space with, and I'm much more exclusive there now than I used to be), but does that make me a Druid? Or just Druid Adjacent?
Let's tackle the issue of nature worship, and hope nothing I say is too controversial. While I was involved in NeoPaganism, I spent more time then in the Reconstructionist branches were nature worship was downplayed or non existent. Even where it was most present, in ADF, something about its expression there often struck me as insincere (beyond just watching people vomit environmental slogans and then get in their SUV to drive absolutely everywhere you need to go, however short the distance, you live in the city and could've walked, or taken the bus). JMG's various works and a Ronald Hutton book helped me to pinpoint just what it was that I saw (liberal virtue signaling on the one hand, on the other a deep seated hatred of the modern world and their lives in it, where nature is loved less for itself than for what it symbolizes: the very opposite of life in the modern world, an idyllic Eden that man has fallen from and which you're trying to get back to). Revival Druidry, on the other hand, has people that do seem sincere, their nature worship is more grounded in reality, expressed in something more than hashtag slogans and posturing, expressed in their whole way of living.
The exposure to more sincere people has given me an appreciation I didn't have before among the NeoPagans. As much appreciation as a city dwelling recluse like myself can have. Sometimes, standing on the beach staring out into the ocean, or sitting in a nearby park atop a hill with a view of the city and beyond that stretches out for miles, I can see its appeal. But I also know if nature worship was my focus, if it was all that I did, it would not be satisfying, it would leave something out. A secondary function, maybe, an important supplement, and possibly one reason I keep finding myself attracted to Druids while also never quite getting involved; maybe something I should look more into when I get my head on straight again. But not the primary focus, no, not the thing I need the most at this point in time.
What is that thing? I'm not completely sure. Probably what I've been looking for and not finding in the various places I've been: NeoPaganism, ADF, Revival Druidry, Reconstructionism, spirit work, etc. Now here in magic.
What resonates with me? Freedom, transformation, initiation; communion with the gods; discipline and willpower, being focused intensely in a single direction to bring a particular passion to life. I don't have those latter qualities, I can untangle myself from places I don't want to be, let go of the outside factors that often get in the way of such pursuits, not so good at the moving forward; I wasn't taught discipline, I was kind of imprinted with its opposite, it's something I will need to develop. I suspect sometimes that the particular direction my life took, in adulthood at least, that gift the universe gave me, was meant to give me the space and the freedom to work on myself. And I'd be further along on that path if I didn't misunderstand the message, thought it meant something different and included different benefits and had to learn the hard way that no, that's not for you.
So with this in mind, there was something I liked better in reading the Golden Dawn books. I liked what seemed like a focus on personal and spiritual development that seemed to be absent from other books I'd read - not to say such systems aren't capable of spiritual development, but maybe that it isn't the primary focus? I also liked, in LRM, the more compact lessons, two weeks and then we review. I think that is a better approach for a beginner in order to measure their progress than one that takes three months at a minimum and probably longer (three months can be a very long time). I also found myself intrigued by the Cabala, the Tree of Life, more so than I might've thought I would be. It could be interesting to work through that system and see what it does.
What turns me off about it? The Judeo-Christian elements. Easier to ignore in LRM, became impossible to do so in CoP.
I don't have the bug up my butt about Christianity that one would commonly see in NeoPagan circles (the demonization of Christianity was something I complained about often when I was in them), my mother attempted to raise me Catholic but it didn't take, I dropped out at age ten and that was the end of that. That said, I've never found Christianity even remotely appealing, its exoteric organizations and beliefs offer me nothing that I want, I disagree with its view of divinity, human nature, the world; I don't like the ugliness it's historically responsible for, but recognize its days as a conquering power that will save you whether you want to be saved or not even if it has to kill you to do so is well behind it, thus there is very little point in walking around with a chip on my shoulder about it. I do feel a certain antipathy for it that I do for anything I have no interest in but that the culture has embraced to such an extent that it decides no, I'm not allowed to opt out - so basically the same antipathy I have toward, say, Harry Potter and Marvel movies. I don't like the way it has become the default, that its ideas are equated with religion itself, defined on its terms only as though its terms are what all religions must be and must offer; same with its notion of divinity as a single thing, and the only conceivable options for most people are to accept that or to believe in nothing at all. I tend to think that situation won't remain in place for much longer, that it is already starting to break apart; for long though doesn't mean I'll live to see it or reap its full benefits.
I read in one book Golden Dawn is explicitly and solely monotheistic and that's just the way it is; I think JMG's work on the Celtic and forthcoming Heathen Golden Dawn have shown that not to be true. Or Damien Echols, who seemed to be more focused on what one could easily call the pantheon of angels, that, if I remember him correctly, he kind of divorced from traditional Christianity's tribal god, beings that pay allegiance to the higher universal order and not any particular religion (very possible, in a general sense, the divine lines likely do not lay just where people here think they do). The system also includes ideas of ultimate unity, common to everything I've thus far read, that I'm not sure I completely agree with in the manner it is presented in, but that (when divorced from traditional monotheism and the Christian god) is a minor quibble; the places where it might matter are nowhere I'd be touching anytime soon.
It would probably make life easier to find something that lines up well with my religious beliefs, or doesn't contradict them too badly. The problem is, I'm not sure that system exists right now. Whether I like it or not, right now most traditional occultism is steeped in Christianity and monotheism; some people are working to change that, but it is moving at the pace that such things do. Do I want to sit around and wait for an experienced occultist to come along and make a decent system that actually works centering around a pantheon I am drawn to, however long that might take? Or do I figure out how to work with what I have to work with? What compromises am I willing to make, at least in the beginning when I'm too ignorant to have much choice, to get where I want to go?
What are the pluses and minuses of each? Invoking certain beings, what attention might that draw, what might it bring into my life and is that something I want? I half imagine, with the traditional Christian elements being the default in occultism for so long, invoked by believers and non believes alike because that's just the way it is, the answer may well be nothing, unless you really want it.
It's something I have to think about: which system will get me where I want to go with the least amount of detours, and what am I willing to compromise on to get there? I'm not sure what I think yet, might have to ask something on Magic Monday, if I can come up with a way to ask without coming across too stupid about it. If anyone happens to be reading this and has advice to offer, feel free.
